Saturday, November 10, 2012

LORD McALPINE INNOCENT; OTHERS ARE NOT


Steven Messham, who was sexually abused while resident at a children's home in Wales.

Adults are not always very good at remembering the exact details of things that happened when they were children and young teens.

Steve Messham, former resident of the children's home Bryn Estyn, has now offered 'sincere and humble apologies' to Lord McAlpine and his family.

He says: 'After seeing a picture in the past hour of the individual concerned, this [is] not the person I identified by photograph presented to me by the police in the early 1990s, who told me the man in the photograph was Lord McAlpine.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2230292/Lord-McAlpine-Abused-care-home-resident-makes-humble-apology-Tory-peer-Lord-McAlpine.html#ixzz2Bkjbok7P

Why might the police have told Steven Messham that the man in 'the photograph' was Lord McAlpine?

Did the police simply say "McAlpine"?

Sports day at one of the North Wales homes. (via Honk Bonk Man)

Gerard Elias QC, leading counsel to the Waterhouse tribunal, put the following question to abuse victim Steven Messham: "Does the name McAlpine mean anything to you."

Messham's reply to the question was: "Yes, sir."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2230788/Paedophile-scandal-How-BBC-nailed-wrong-man-A-Child-abuse-scandal-TV-bosses-desperate-atone-humiliation-Savile--Newsnight-investigation-backfired.html#ixzz2BnnOU97W

Elias: "In what context?"

Messham: "I was also abused by him sexually."

Sir Ronald Waterhouse: "Is the person you referred to alive or dead?"

Messham: "I believe he is dead."

Elias: "Were the acts you speak of while you were at Bryn Estyn or elsewhere?"

Messham: "Bryn Estyn, sir."

Elias: "How many times did you see the man?"

Messham: "Three times."

Elias: "Who told you his name?"

Messham: "I’m not saying, sir, I’m not trying to be awkward. I would like to tell the tribunal the full story to stop it happening again. But I’ve been banging my head against the wall for years. I have made numerous complaints to police."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2230788/Paedophile-scandal-How-BBC-nailed-wrong-man-A-Child-abuse-scandal-TV-bosses-desperate-atone-humiliation-Savile--Newsnight-investigation-backfired.html#ixzz2BnnOU97W


Lord McAlpine and Margaret Thatcher

The Waterhouse report contains Steven Messham's statement to the police:

The abuser had several cars and a chauffeur.

The abusers would wait for Steven Messham at the bottom of a lane near Bryn Estyn children's home when Steven had a late pass from the home.

He was abused in the car in a lay-by and at the Crest Hotel in Wrexham.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2230788/Paedophile-scandal-How-BBC-nailed-wrong-man-A-Child-abuse-scandal-TV-bosses-desperate-atone-humiliation-Savile--Newsnight-investigation-backfired.html#ixzz2BnnOU97W

Why did Steven Messham come to claim that the man in the car was a senior figure in the Conservative party?

Steven Messham does he identify the person or persons at Bryn Estyn who 'introduced' him to the abuser.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2230788/Paedophile-scandal-How-BBC-nailed-wrong-man-A-Child-abuse-scandal-TV-bosses-desperate-atone-humiliation-Savile--Newsnight-investigation-backfired.html#ixzz2BnnOU97W


Brighton flat, site of an arson attack. A number of the abused victims have died in mysterious circumstances.

In 2000, BBC Radio broadcast an interview with an unidentified victim who gave a similar account to Steven Messham.

The unidentified victim believed he had been abused by the same person.

The unidentified victim has since disappeared.

The victim reportedly met the abuser in a car park.

"That is where I was told to meet him," he said.

"We went for something to eat and he pulled over in a lay-by and then hey presto - oral sex took place. He gave me some money. He was probably just trying to keep me quiet."

He says he gave a photograph of his abuser to the police, but they took no action.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2230788/Paedophile-scandal-How-BBC-nailed-wrong-man-A-Child-abuse-scandal-TV-bosses-desperate-atone-humiliation-Savile--Newsnight-investigation-backfired.html#ixzz2BnnOU97W


Among those stoking the recent rumours about Lord McAlpine were the House of Commons Speaker's wife, Sally Bercow, and Guardian columnist George Monbiot. BBC-apologises

Sir Ronald Waterhouse said: "On this evidence we cannot be satisfied that any member of (Lord McAlpine’s) family was involved in paedophile activity ... and the evidence (of Steven Messham) has been demonstrated to be incorrect in some respects."

In his original police statement, Steven Messham says he was raped on "four or five occasions".

When he appeared before the inquiry, it was "three times".

On the recent BBC Newsnight programme, "more than a dozen times".

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2230788/Paedophile-scandal-How-BBC-nailed-wrong-man-A-Child-abuse-scandal-TV-bosses-desperate-atone-humiliation-Savile--Newsnight-investigation-backfired.html#ixzz2Bnn2AS7P

Local councillor Keith Gregory said boys from Bryn Estyn would be taken to the homes of two McAlpine family members in the area - Gerwyn Hall and Marchwiel Hall, both a few miles from Wrexham town centre.

Gerwyn Hall was occupied by Jimmie McAlpine, who died in 1991.


One of the children's homes in North Wales where abuse took place.

A comment on a forum:

"There are two individual groups here ... 

"One is operating in Worth Wales that we now know about. 

(Peter xxxxxxxxxxxx, Jxxxxxxx, Mixxxxxxxxxxxxx, Txxxxxxxxxxxxx etc), 

"The second is in London and is 'cash for boys'. 

"There is some cross-over between the groups, namely that public official and his lover, the company director.... 

"The one in London was basically gay men who liked teenagers. 

"In London there were parties which featured rent boys in return for political favours.

"The public official procured from North Wales abuse victims and shipped them down to London to take part in the parties. 

"The public official is the epicentre of everything in the 80s; there's so much corruption to come out about him and his dealings it isn't true.

"It's important to stress those who were attending the parties in London may never have known the source of some of the boys and just assumed they were standard rent boys... 

"The only problem for the Tories is that these MPs were all closeted, some still are, some of them were very overtly Christian, many of them were very publicly homophobic and family values... 

"Two of the names I have seen on twitter were never named at North Wales because they were never involved.

"Scallywag even went as far as to say they purposefully kept their distance from such things, gang rape being rather different to buggering a rent boy... 

"They were both had relationships with the public official who was going to North Wales though... 

"Lord McAlpine was wrongly identified...

"Until that official gets named the entire story won't come out. 

"He was identified completely positively by six people and to this day is well known on the London gay S+M scene. 

"Medical records show people who shagged him ending up in casualty.

"Several others have come forward from North Wales who didn't testify against him at the inquiry and said his ........ agency was involved... etc etc."



Lord McAlpine tidies his Wikipedia entry
Tapestry at the tap

Anonymous writes:

It is patently clear that Messham would have looked at images of McAlpine prior to yesterday. 

Messham has either been threatened or bribed or both. And that would only have been done if McAlpine was guilty.

Events of the past few days represent a highly sophisticated Psyop designed to 1. stop the momentum of the revelations about elite involvement in Savile's activities, 2. create another narrative which can become the media focus, and 3. discredit information on the internet about elite paedophilia.

Schofield was primed to "ambush" Cameron with a list of names and to emphasise that he got them "in three minutes on the internet".

Messham was set up to participate in a Newsnight programme which would specifically not mention names and state that evidence was insufficient to do so.

Look at the company which did the "investigation" for Newsnight. It is dominated by individuals from Common Purpose such as Bell.

The net effect of this has been to create a narrative that McAlpine is innocent, that there should not be an aggressive attempt to uncover elite paedophiles, and to distract attention away from Savile's extensive links with very senior politicians and royalty, the manner in which he was granted control of a secure mental hospital etc.


Carolyn Leckie ‏@carolynleckie

Can we remember the real story, BBC? 30 abusers never questioned, at least 3 very high profile, evidence destroyed.

http://www.channel4.com/news/child-abuse-north-wales-waterhouse-inquiry-sian-griffiths …
~~

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28 comments:

Anonymous said...

Another victim @realjimmyjones seems to suggest that Messham has misidentified Morrison, that Morrison and McAlpine look very alike if you compare pictures of them when younger, which they do - same wavy hair.

Zoompad said...

I am going to sound like a broken record, but I just want to ask this question again (and again and again and again until I get a proper answer):

Why was the Allan Levy QC/Barbara Kehen Pindown report removed from every public library in Staffordshire, and the victims of Pindown deliberatly denied access to it?

Has the same thing happened to the victims of Pindown abuse in other areas, North Wales for example?

Where are the records, the photographs ect? If they have been destroyed, who was responsible for taking the decision to destroy them?

Anonymous said...

The Telegraph today has an overview of the Paedophile Information Exchange and Bryn Estyn, without names http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/9667935/I-do-not-doubt-men-in-smart-cars-preyed-on-boys-but-justice-needs-detective-work-not-trial-by-media.html

John Whittigdale's brother Charles Napier was treasurer of the Paedophile Information Exchange and has been convicted of several child sexual offences. Napier was a link between care homes and public school teachers. John Whittingdale is chair of the culture & media committee.

Anonymous said...

How about Ty Mawr and the other homes - the links need to be made as this supports Massham's claims.

Zoompad said...

Instead of suing people, and probably some of them will be victims of horrific child abuse who repeated his name genuinly believing that he was involved in the paedophile ring, a genuine mistake, why doesn't Lord McAlpine put some of his money and authority into fighting for the victims of the abuse? He could start off by getting his lawyers to find out who was reponsible for taking the Pindown reports out of the public libraries, and shredding evidence.

That is what I would do if I were in Lord McAlpine's shoes. I believe that would be the moral and sensible thing to do.

Anonymous said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2230673/Nine-men-appear-court-accused-sexually-exploiting-underage-girl-Rochdale.html

Anonymous said...

http://tipggita32.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/from-fantasy-to-fact-four-ways-the-fake-media-creates-a-false-reality/

Anonymous said...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9665741/HSBC-investigation-Drug-dealers-gun-runners-and-Britains-biggest-bank.html

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hHcbROId_vg

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lu94h7y6r7M

Anonymous said...

http://www.ccs-rochford.co.uk/spivey/?p=7001

Anonymous said...

From Icke's site:

"A man called Steve Messham tells the BBC current affairs programme, Newsnight, that he was abused as a child while a resident in a North Wales children's home in the 1970s/1980s by former Conservative Party Treasurer Lord Alistair McAlpine.

Except that Newsnight did not broadcast the actual name in its programme.

Speculation begins and Lord Alistair McAlpine's name is widely circulated across the Internet from multiple sources as being the person that Messham was talking about although Messham does not confirm this.

On the day that McAlpine's lawyers released a statement denying that he is a paedophile or in any way involved in the North Wales children’s homes scandal, Messham issues an apology to Lord McAlpine saying that it was a case of 'mistaken identity' and that he should never have named him.

Er, Steve, mate, publicly you DIDN'T.

WTF?

This allows the BBC to issue a grovelling statement apologising to McAlpine whom the Newsnight programme never named!!

Steve Messham said that the reason he has recanted on his not publicly mentioning the name of Lord McAlpine is that he was shown a picture of McAlpine by police 'in the last hour' and he realised it was not the man who abused him over and over and over decades ago.

Hold on a minute, while I breathe very deeply and sip some very sweet tea. Talk among yourselves.

Okay, I think I can continue, but I will have to type a little slower.

Messham says that the problem of 'mistaken identity' arose because police showed him a picture in the 1990s of the person that he said abused him and they told him that it was Lord McAlpine. Now he had seen a picture of Lord McAlpine 'in the last hour' and he realised that it is not the man in the picture that police showed to him in the 1990s.

This is where you have to take some deep breaths and sip some sweet tea. I do advise it, anyway.

You are being asked to believe that in the 15-20 years between Steve Messham allegedly being shown the picture of 'Lord McAlpine' by police and accusing him of sexually abusing him in an unbroadcast part of the interview with Newsnight that Messham has never once Googled 'Lord Alistair McAlpine' and seen the pictures of him widely available ever since he said he was abused??

That he never once sought out a picture of him of any kind in the decades since his time in the children's home until the police showed him one ‘in the last hour’?

That he didn’t know what McAlpine looked like even when he has been in the news only recently with comments about jailed Polly Peck businessman, Asil Nadir.

Steve … this is what comes up if you Google the words 'Lord Alistair McAlpine' - pictures widely available way before 'in the last hour' ...

Steve, mate, I am so sorry for what you went through, and what you are going through now, but for me bollocks is the only word in town.

Yet now the BBC is issuing 'unreserved apologies' to someone they didn't even name and the mainstream media is running around like headless chickens - 'don't panic, don't panic, it's all explained now, go back to sleep' - on the basis of such transparent BULLSHIT with regard to Steve Messham.

You know the most telling and relevant words written on this website in the last week? These ...

'If the real and full truth comes out about what really goes on away from the public eye it will bring down the British political establishment across all parties and make the monarchy history.'

That, in my view, is what Steve Messham’s sudden about-turn after decades is really about and the mainstream media may run, and much of the 'alternative' media may run, but I bloody won't.

Some of us are not chickens and our heads are still intact. Some of us will not go back to sleep because we were never asleep in the first place.

Is it only me that finds all this absolutely inexplicable?

I doubt it.

So who’s got the guts to say so?"

Anonymous said...

At my care home it was not unknown for kids to exchange sexual favours
for treats, one very pretty girl who was 15, would sleep with the head man to stay out later than her time, similarly a couple of the boys would go with men and with men brought in from outside
for treats, these were called "sweetie boys" as they always came back with sweets, or pop records, and they got trips to london in posh cars and were bought hambugers and cokacola etc
the actual rape of boys did not happen very often i can only remember 5 or 5 boys the whole time i was there.
BIG MAC

Anonymous said...

Brian McGinnis ran the mental health division of the Department of Health and Social Services in 1987, when plans were drawn up to appoint Savile to run a taskforce overseeing the hospital.
Health service sources said they understood Mr McGinnis was "instrumental" in the creation of the taskforce, which began work the following year.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/laura-donnelly/9638018/Jimmy-Saviles-relatives-speak-of-their-turmoil.html

Brian McGinnis, A high-profile figure in the disability world, who has been arrested twice over unconnected rape allegations, one of which involved a child with learning difficulties, is continuing to chair a Christian learning difficulties charity, DN can reveal.
Mr McGinnis, a former special advisor for the charity Mencap, who is also believed to have been a senior civil servant in the Department of Health, has worked with people with learning difficulties for 40 years.
He was arrested last August over allegations that he raped a child with learning difficulties at the Betts Way respite home in Bromley, Kent, in the mid-1990s.
A Metropolitan police spokeswoman confirmed that an allegation of rape of a child with learning difficulties was made to police in November 2004.
http://archive.disabilitynow.org.uk/search/z06_07_Jy/arrested.shtml

Anonymous said...

McAlpine innocent?

Really?

Why do you destroy the credibility of this site by repeating this garbage.

Events of the past couple of days have actually just confirmed his guilt.

It is patently clear that Messham would have looked at images of McAlpine prior to yesterday.

Messham has either been threatened or bribed or both. And that would only have been done if McAlpine was guilty.

Events of the past few days represent a highly sophisticated Psyop designed to 1. stop the momentum of the revelations about elite involvement in Savile's activities, 2. create another narrative which can become the media focus, and 3. discredit information on the internet about elite paedophilia.

Schofield was primed to "ambush" Cameron with a list of names and to emphasise that he got them "in three minutes on the internet".

Messham was set up to participate in a Newsnight programme which would specifically not mention names and state that evidence was insufficient to do so.

Look at the company which did the "investigation" for Newsnight. It is dominated by individuals from Common Purpose such as Bell.

The net effect of this has been to create a narrative that McAlpine is innocent, that there should not be an aggressive attempt to uncover elite paedophiles, and to distract attention away from Savile's extensive links with very senior politicians and royalty, the manner in which he was granted control of a secure mental hospital etc.

Anonymous said...

For the record, listen again - Question Time, Nov 9:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nq50d/Any_Questions_The_National_Railway_Museum_Shildon_County_Durham/

yes, it would bring the establishment down. Nobody would bother voting again or supporting any of the UK's institutions.

Anonymous said...

@12:37

Good comment. Great comment. Inexplicable, or pure bullshit? The only plausible reason for all this might be to cast doubt over the entirety of witnesses now coming forward.

They want the public to focus on........it was so long ago, they think they remember but they don't. How sad, but how hopeless after all these years.....Create doubt in the minds of the public following along.

There are many abuse victims who would jump at a chance to be interviewed on BBC, but they have no chance. So what are the odds that the one person who gets the spotlight does a major about-turn? Since the BBC is clearly in coverup mode, putting a stooge or plant out front and center getting lots of publicity (without really naming the name thereby doing minimal damage to McAlpine).
Then the big recantation, full of holes, and with it comes heavy media attention on poor poor poor Lord McAlpine and the damage done to him by these accusers coming out of the woodwork with their dodgy memories........

Lots of doubt, lots of sympathy for an innocent accused. Perfect, score one for the BBC.
After all, they are the professionals here.

Anonymous said...

What's happened to the David Icke website?

Anyway prima facie people have to accept Lord McAlpine is innocent, that's an 800 year old legal system for you.

However the last couple of days have seen an orchestrated attempt to make us forget that children have been subject to systematic child abuse. Just remember that 'little' detail through all the media and political disinformation

Anonymous said...

"Anyway prima facie people have to accept Lord McAlpine is innocent, that's an 800 year old legal system for you. "

No they don't. I am certain beyond any reasonable doubt of his guilt, and the events of the past day have removed any slight possibility of innocence in my eyes.

There is no doubt of his guilt, just as there is no doubt that the "official story" of 9/11 is excrement.

Anonymous said...

David Icke’s website has been under sustained cyber-attacks over the past few days.Funny that.

Anonymous said...

"It is patently clear that Messham would have looked at images of McAlpine prior to yesterday."

It is not patently clear at all. It is not even patently clear that Messham either owns or knows how to use a computer. He may well have 'moved on' until the Jimmy Savile case reared its ugly head and stirred up memories from the past.

Why keep posting rumours based on supposition? Is that how to get to the truth?

Why would victims even know their abusers names unless they famous or were teachers etc at the school?

It is clear that the McAlpine name was know to the boys because they were formed into work parties for two local McAlpine residences. That does not mean it was relevant in any other context.

Lord McAlpine's public statement would be easy enough to demolish if it weren't true.
Asserting that he is a liar is simply not good enough; undisciplined use of the Web is likely to cause a crackdown; people who use it have a responsibility to be considered in their statements so that we don't all lose something very precious.

Zoompad said...

"On the day that McAlpine's lawyers released a statement denying that he is a paedophile or in any way involved in the North Wales children’s homes scandal, Messham issues an apology to Lord McAlpine saying that it was a case of 'mistaken identity' and that he should never have named him.

Er, Steve, mate, publicly you DIDN'T.

WTF?"

Well spotted.

Tom Watson MP is, or was, a member of Searchlight.

John Hemming MP is a member of the secret services.

If anyone really thinks either of those two men, or their friends, are really interested in helping victims of institutional abuse they need to wake up!

Zoompad said...

Is this the same Brian Horner who was on Any Questions who brought up the first question?

http://www.voluntarynorfolk.org.uk/data/JHSCVSS/March_2012.pdf

Anonymous said...

Police alleged to have identified McAlpine to victims have no comment to make.

https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran

2 names still in frame - Morrison and J. McAlpine. What did they do to eliminate or identify assailants in photos? Were potential assailants or Crest Hotel staff interviewed? Who owns a Harrods card?

Anonymous said...

Re zoompads post
"Tom Watson MP is, or was, a member of Searchlight.

John Hemming MP is a member of the secret services.

If anyone really thinks either of those two men, or their friends, are really interested in helping victims of institutional abuse they need to wake up!"

What is wrong with being a member/supporter of Searchlight?!!!
They have done some brave and couragous work in exposing the far right and fascists
http://searchlightmagazine.com/about-us

Is it because some of them are jews?


Zoompad said...

"What is wrong with being a member/supporter of Searchlight?!!!"

Oh dear.

http://www.aryanunity.com/bidney.html

Anon said...

Wasn't X named by several men , who X had raped? How many men are there out there who mistook the man for the perpetrator...surely more than one is more than a coincidence? Also wasnt X involved with justin fashanu and steven milligan who suddenly were taken out (literally)

Anonymous said...

I always thought that Kenneth Clarke and Lord McAlpine looked very alike. Perhaps this could have led to cases of mistaken identity?

 
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